Q&A: Assistant Professor Frank Lehman dives deep into the iconic 'Star Wars' scores

Tufts Assistant Professor of Music Frank Lehman did not know his passion would make a viable career. When Lehman was exploring ideas for his graduate school dissertation, he discovered opportunities in the field of film scoring. Throughout his career studying the scores of the "Star Wars" series (1977–), Lehman created a database for all of composer John Williams' recorded leitmotifs throughout the series, ranging from "Rey's Theme" (2015) in the newer movies to the iconic "Imperial March" (1980). His knowledge of the series has made him a source for many different publications, and Lehman continues to write books about both Hollywood cinema scoring and "Star Wars." Recently, the Daily had the chance to sit down with Lehman to discuss his research about "Star Wars" and film scores.

Tufts Daily (TD): Film series like "Star Wars," "The Lord of the Rings" (2001–2003) and "Harry Potter" (2001–2011) all have recurring scores and sounds. Do you believe that, if a movie is going to be a series, it needs those recurring scores and sounds?

Frank Lehman (FL): I think it helps a great deal, but recurring music is not necessary. I would point to the Marvel cinematic universe as a demonstration of a successful film franchise without a whole lot of musical continuity between films. There is an "Avengers" theme, but it’s short, motivic and only occurs prominently in the first "Avengers" movie, and it doesn’t seem to be to the detriment of the series, at least financially. There have been complaints, particularly by film music critics online, about the generic quality of some of these superhero soundtracks lately, which has something to do with the absence of memorable, and more importantly, carried-over themes. If I were overseeing a mega-franchise, I would definitely see it as an opportunity for musical development over the course of multiple films.

TD: You’ve discussed the lack of memorable themes in the past decade in favor of ambient sounds and mood. In recent years, characters like Wonder Woman have been given recognizable themes in movies. Do you think iconic characters, whether action or sci-fi, need these scores to be recognized?

FL: Again, I don’t think it’s a sort of aesthetic prerequisite, but if I’m a filmmaker, I want my movie to have recognizable themes. Wonder Woman seems to be the exception in the DC franchise. She garners a jagged electric cello leitmotif, which is striking without being necessarily hummable. I’ve seen it described more as being a riff than an actual melody or theme; it’s something compressed and recognizable, even if you’re not going to hum it afterwards. It was introduced in "Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice" (2016), and smartly, they continued to use it in Wonder Woman’s standalone film, where it’s nicely and subtly decomposed and recomposed. The Wonder Woman theme is not sophisticated, but it is sort of ingenious, the way it burrows into your head; it's iconic, if not compositionally complex.

TD: In terms of "Star Wars," do you think the score and sounds have become iconic due to the success of the series, or have they helped make the series iconic?

FL: That’s a good chicken and egg question. I mean, the way you hear the "Star Wars" filmmakers talk about John Williams' contribution is interesting. George Lucas says that this series would be nothing without Williams' music, and Star Wars fandom has always given him proper due, claiming that he is a completely instrumental aspect in the series’ success. But it could have been otherwise. The original movie was set to have a compilation score of classical music on the same model of "2001: A Space Odyssey" (1968). A lot of it does, however, come down to original themes and recognizable melodies, and that’s probably where music has had its biggest impact in contributing to these movies' iconicity. Think of the Main Title theme, the Force Theme, the Imperial March… These are earworms; they aren’t just memorable but insistently, aggressively memorable.

TD: The films create a universe that has obviously become a media empire. Do you think it is easier to create scores and memorable music for films that are fantasy/sci-fi/not based in the real world?

FL: I suspect it is different. With nonfiction, there is sort of a responsibility to realism, which music has a complicated relationship with. Music is not supposed to be a part of the world that is being conveyed on screen. Music is this alternative or extra layer of commentary or narration that exists in a weird formal space and can heighten things and make them more emotional and mythological, but at the same time can make things overblown or exaggerate events or be overly literal, and that may not be something concerned with truth and historical authenticity. You see this in scoring nonfiction films now — a reluctance toward having big themes and employing the really mythic scoring practices, in favor of more minimal and ambient types of musical accompaniment. It’s tricky navigating what counts as memorable versus effective, and we should avoid conflating these two related but distinct musical qualities.

TD: What made you interested in the "Star Wars" scores and Hollywood cinema scores?

FL: I have spent my life with this music. I think I was first introduced to the music in "Star Wars" from a tape cassette that I got of film music concert arrangements from various movies, a lot of them stemming from John Williams' scores. I hadn’t even seen any of the movies that these suites and themes were coming from, and yet I loved them. It wasn't until middle school, I suppose, that I actually saw "Star Wars," and then something really clicked with me. It was specifically the binary sunset scene and the Force Theme. It was in high school that I discovered film musicology. I was voraciously interested in reading music scholarship and discovering what people had to say about film music. In college, I majored in music, specifically music theory and composition, and I dabbled a little in film scoring.

Once I was in graduate school, I started out thinking I would do a dissertation on the operas of Wilhelm Wagner, but he wasn't exactly virgin territory academically speaking. Film music was still a new field in scholarship and I had a lot to say, and there's so many different angles to take. I converted this background of love for and knowledge of this repertoire and turned it into a dissertation on film music, and that turned into teaching courses on film music, and that turned into and writing a book on film music. I can't possibly imagine that 10-year-old me would see this as a viable career, but I imagine he would be pretty happy to learn it was!

TD: Let’s talk about the anthology films being released. Did "Rogue One" (2016) build on any motifs in the trilogies? Do you believe the anthology films should not build on these common themes since they are not a part of the Skywalker saga? As well, what about Rian Johnson’s new trilogy, which will not be focused on the Skywalker family?

FL: I don't envy the filmmakers who have to make that call. At some point, they do have to decide what the long-term musical identity of the series will be. John Williams isn’t going to be writing these scores forever. We have this massive body of recognizable, iconic themes, and it seems at first that the films wouldn’t be properly "Star Wars" without this musical backdrop, since it’s been a sonic constant for eight to nine films now. It’s wonderful to have this continuity and consistency, and it allows all sorts of elicitations of nostalgia and musically rewarding transformations of preexisting music ideas.

It’s just an amazing musical opportunity to stick with this material, but these movies are going to continue to evolve and grow and there's needs to be decisions about new directions and “letting the past die,” as Kylo Ren would say. I’m totally fine with that. I think it would disappointing if they just stuck with the exact same sound world in the anthology series and the new trilogy. I would like to see more experimentation, and for the music makers not to take things for granted or to feel overly obliged to the music of the past. You can’t recapture what made it work in 1977. That's what "Rogue One" and "The Last Jedi" (2017) were really about, making these bold tonal moves, in the process angering some fans, but more importantly helping us not be locked into the expectations of a now 40-year-old series. I would like "Star Wars" to be allowed to make dramatic and creative choices that are appropriate for 2018, and far into the future.

TD: Who is your favorite "Star Wars" character and why?

FL: I think as far as a compelling character, I might have to say Kylo Ren. He's fascinating and so well acted and characterized. This really is a new type of villain in the series, and, no, I'm not a “Reylo” person, and I don't think this is ultimately going to be a romantic story; it's not in his destiny. He's bringing this kind of insecurity and entitlement and rage to a character, with traits that could’ve, if effectively written and acted, been a part of the Anakin Skywalker arc and character. I love it because he is a character who, like certain fans, is totally wrapped in the past of the series. So is Rey in a way, but for Kylo, it's an obsession with the past in a dark way, an attempt to recreate the worst aspects of "Star Wars."

In the sequel trilogy, although the politics are very murky and not all that spelled out, the First Order is like this neo-Nazi take of the Empire, with these people who grew up with an image of the previous regime, not realizing how evil and horrible the Empire was, and in the process fetishizing and fantasizing about its iconography, appropriating its imagery in this sort of immature and whiny kind of way. My favorite line in "The Last Jedi" is when Snoke glares at Kylo Ren and tells him to take that "ridiculous" mask off, which is perfect because Kylo Ren really is this wannabe Vader, a fundamentally small person with a dangerous amount of power.

Editor’s note: This interview has been edited for clarity and length.